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《都市快报》采访手记",[822,830,831,832,835,836,838,839,841,842,844,845,847],{},"《亚洲周刊》近日评出了千禧年亚洲商界领袖人物20强，中国内地有两位企业家入选。他们是广东",[825,833,834],{},"步步高","公司总经理",[825,837,827],{},"和联想集团副总裁杨元庆。其中",[825,840,827],{},"先生以其“明晰的远见和创新能力”被《ASIA WEEK》评选为亚洲20位商业与金融界“千禧年行业领袖” 之一。作为中国商界青年才俊的一个传奇，",[825,843,827],{},"于本周悄然飘至杭州。1999年9月16日深夜，记者与他相约世贸中心大堂的咖啡吧，一向对媒体保持低调的",[825,846,827],{},"接受了本报记者的独家采访。",[849,850,852],"h1",{"id":851},"我不会讲故事","\"我不会讲故事\"",[822,854,855,856,859],{},"记：与好多媒体给你拍的照片相比起来，你给我的印象有两点，一是有点发福了，二是没有了照片上的那种霸气，像\"",[825,857,858],{},"小霸王","\"似的，你穿的也特别简单朴实。外界传言说你这人很低调，不事张扬，比如说你这人现在用的手机还是最老式的摩托罗拉。是这样吗？",[822,861,862],{},"段：其实我不是低调，应该说我做人比较正常，该怎样就怎样，不像有些人烧了似的，急功近利。至于手机，主要是因为没时间换，现在已经换了。",[822,864,865,866,870,871,873],{},"记：据了解，你的低调常常让好多满怀期望的记者败兴而归，因为你不会讲故事，特别是那些情节曲折动人惊心动魄的企业秘闻，而且你还经常严肃地告诉采访者：\"我们很",[867,868,12],"a",{"href":869},"\u002Fbenfen","，这听起来像废话，却是做企业最根本的东西。\"你真的很",[867,872,12],{"href":869},"吗？",[822,875,876,877,882],{},"段：",[825,878,879,880],{},"我觉得做人和做企业一样，都应该",[867,881,12],{"href":869},"。所以我觉得你和我之间的对话，我担心你会觉得很难受，因为我不会夸夸其谈，说一些不着边际和有趣的话，而这些是你们记者比较感兴趣的东西。比如你和我聊“经济全球化”的问题，这是一个热门，是好多企业和媒体都都津津乐道的话题，而我从不赶这个时髦。内地的企业比较喜欢将\"国际化\"念经一样地挂在嘴上，而很少去做一些实在的努力。我很少做海外合同，我们有如此大的国内市场，为何还要浪费时间到海外呢？",[822,884,885,886,888,889,891],{},"记：你不说并不代表你不在做。事实上我已经注意到，你在谈论某一件事时，往往都是下意识地用一种国际化的眼光或标准去评判。比如我问及你对\"",[825,887,834],{},"\"现状的评价时，你谦逊地称",[825,890,834],{},"是“小企业”，我当时很惊讶。后来我才知道，你是与国际化的大企业相比较而言。",[822,893,894,895,898,899,901],{},"段：对，要想把企业做大，应该具备这样的意识。",[825,896,897],{},"与国外的企业比起来，我们还差得很远","。我自己认为，\"",[825,900,834],{},"\"是一家规模不大却很健康的企业。",[822,903,904],{},"记：很健康？",[822,906,907,908,911],{},"段：对。",[825,909,910],{},"主要是指企业的体制和运作机制","。我们是一家纯粹股份制的企业，企业的基本架构比较健全，在这一点我们其实与西方的企业已没有什么区别，差距主要是在管理水平上。",[849,913,915],{"id":914},"股份制很健康","\"股份制很健康\"",[822,917,918,919,921,922,924,925,927,928,930,931,933,934,936],{},"记：说起股份制，我想起你在中山\"",[825,920,858],{},"\"如日中天的时候，就曾向怡华集团的上层提出过想把\"",[825,923,858],{},"\"搞成股份制的意向。当时你领导下的",[825,926,858],{},"获得了超常规的的发展，年产值逾十亿元。按照事先敲定的分配方案，你本人与怡华集团之间利润“二八分成”，也就是说，你可以拿到",[825,929,858],{},"利润的20%。现在有报道说，当时集团有时将\"",[825,932,858],{},"\"的盈利抽走用于其它地方，这与你想将",[825,935,858],{},"做大的愿望背道而驰。我想知道，为什么集团不同意你提出的股份制方案？",[822,938,939],{},"段：过去的事情不想再提。",[822,941,942],{},"记：据说当时你因为\"等来等去等不及了\"之后，便提出了辞职，准备自立山头。走的那天，集团老总陈健仁亲自送行，场面悲壮，很多人哭了，你也醉得不省人事。",[822,944,945,946,948,949,951,952,958],{},"段：不管怎么说，陈总对我有知遇之恩。你刚才问我，\"",[825,947,858],{},"\"是什么性质的企业，我自己都不知道。当时我们光是注册的时候，就改了好几回，先是国营，后是集体，然后又变成了国营集体。有朋友笑我，你",[825,950,827],{},"怎么在一个性质都不知道的企业里干了6年多！刚开始我无所谓，有钱赚就行了，但当企业做到一定程度时，我就觉得受到了很多钳制。",[825,953,954,955,957],{},"我想把\"",[825,956,858],{},"\"发展成为中国的","松下，股份制是必须的，它是目前比较合理的体制，西方实行了好多年，已经发展成了一种很成熟的企业文明，它解决了所有权和经营权的问题，同时也\"搞掂\"了激励机制和约束机制。",[822,960,961,962,964],{},"记：再回到你现在的\"",[825,963,834],{},"\"。所谓\"健康\"，\"股份制\"作为企业的原始资金来源是不是也算其中的一项健康指标？你个人占了多少股份？",[822,966,967],{},"段：那当然。现在公司的中层管理人员和好多员工都已入股，一些人把全部家当都押在了企业里。我个人的股份在公司里不算最多，大概一成左右，具体多少我也搞不清了，这要问财务。台湾的\"宏基\"大概占了19%左右。",[822,969,970,971,973],{},"记：那你觉得你与\"",[825,972,834],{},"\"是一种什么样的关系呢？算是它的老板吗？",[822,975,976,977,979,980,983,984,987,988,990],{},"段：我算是\"",[825,978,834],{},"\"的一个股东吧。至于是不是老板，我觉得自己最合适的称呼是\"职业经理人\"。我是这个企业的管理者，一些大的决策上我也受到董事会的牵制，当然具体的事务上我可以说了算，要不然工作就没法做了。这其实是比较符合现代企业发展的基本规律的。",[825,981,982],{},"松下幸之助","在晚年离开",[825,985,986],{},"松下","时，他的股份只占了整个",[825,989,986],{},"公司的2.83%。",[849,992,994],{"id":993},"那位船长让我落泪","\"那位船长让我落泪\"",[822,996,997],{},"记 ：我知道你的理想是想做一位真正的企业家。在中央电视台广告投标的座谈会上，有位国企代表认为，作为一位真正的企业家，不应如此看中夺标一事。记得当时你拍案而起，说：\"真正的企业家搞不好企业是要跳楼的！\"。难得见你激动，你认为什么才是真正的企业家？",[822,999,876,1000,1003],{},[825,1001,1002],{},"我曾经说过：\"企业成功了，是大家的功劳，企业失败了，则肯定是我的不对。","\"做一个真正的企业家不容易啊。真正的企业家搞不好企业真的是要跳楼的，但现在有哪家国有企业搞不好的老总跳楼了？看过《泰坦尼克号》吗？有个镜头让我感动，船要沉没的时候，船长坚决不离开，他要与船共存亡。那位船长让我落泪。如果把一个企业比作一艘船，那位船长就是一位真正的企业家。",[822,1005,1006],{},"记：市场的海洋里，如今百舸争流，万船齐发。你认为这样的船长多吗？",[822,1008,1009],{},"段：寥寥无几。这样的船长很难找到，连吨位大点的船都不多，联合舰队就更没有了。能真正称为企业的太少。",[822,1011,1012],{},"记：看来你这位船长也不好当。",[822,1014,1015,1016,1018],{},"段：是的。不说别的，我手下有五六千人和他们的家庭都与\"",[825,1017,834],{},"\"血肉相连，我们要是哪步棋走错了，就会深陷泥淖，大家都要敲掉饭碗，员工与企业的关系撕皮裂肉。所以我们现在的步子尽可能迈得稳些。我们在国内算是比较健康的企业，也就是安全意识比较强，健康意识比较强，不搞好大喜功，强调稳打稳扎。其实，我们也很脆弱。",[822,1020,1021],{},"记：愿闻其详。",[822,1023,1024,1025,1028],{},"段：一是没有很好的融资",[867,1026,161],{"href":1027},"\u002Fqudao","，二是有些政策环境还不够理想。这方面点到即止。",[849,1030,1031,1032,1035],{"id":48},"“",[867,1033,48],{"href":1034},"\u002Fganweitianxiahou","”",[822,1037,1038,1039,1041,1042,1044],{},"记：《Asiaweek》（亚洲周刊）评价到你的时候说这个人\"保守\"，但同时也说，你的保守对你也有好处。有人说你的\"",[867,1040,12],{"href":869},"\"包含了大巧若拙的智慧。刚才我见到了温州商界的南存辉，他算是敢为天下先的一个典型，而你则是\"",[867,1043,48],{"href":1034},"\"，因为从你做过的每一行来看，如游戏机、学习机、VCD和电话机等，可以说都是跟在别人后面\"入市\"的，但你却都能后发制人，在市场上取得了比先入市的企业好得多的成绩。你和南存辉有什么不同吗？",[822,1046,1047,1048,1050,1051,1074,1075,1078,1079,1081,1082,1084,1085,1087,1088,1091,1092,1094,1095,1097,1098,1100],{},"段：其实没什么不同。\"敢为于下后\"并不意味着不要进取和创新，而是\"后中有先\"，厚积薄发。南存辉说\"哪里有市场，哪里说有温州人\"，其实有了市场再去，就已经是\"后\"了。做企业需要",[867,1049,12],{"href":869},"，我不愿只有两分把握的时候就贸然行事，最起码也得有七分把握再考虑。",[825,1052,1053,1054,1056,1057,1060,1061,1060,1064,1060,1067,1070,1071],{},"我的\"",[867,1055,12],{"href":869},"\"里面包含了五个意思，即",[867,1058,18],{"href":1059},"\u002Fpingchangxin","、",[867,1062,202],{"href":1063},"\u002Fzerenxin",[867,1065,191],{"href":1066},"\u002Fjinquxin",[867,1068,207],{"href":1069},"\u002Faixin","和",[867,1072,197],{"href":1073},"\u002Fnaixin","。同时还有一点，就是",[867,1076,212],{"href":1077},"\u002Fxinyu","很重要，做人和做企业都一样。",[867,1080,212],{"href":1077},"是什么？是不是今晚上和你约好几点到，我到了，就是讲",[867,1083,212],{"href":1077},"？这当然也是，但这样理解太浅了。只有等你为曾经许下的承诺付出代价时，你才能明白什么是",[867,1086,212],{"href":1077},"。中央电视台曾有个记者与我约好下午四点见面，结果一忙，我把这事给忘了，到第二天才想起来。我忙不迭地给他打电话，第一句说是：“对不起，昨天我把约会给忘了！”我不像有些人为了一件承诺不能兑现而找出许多理由，忘了就是忘了，应该如实相告。那位记者后来和我说，就冲你这句话，就觉得你是个值得一交的朋友。",[825,1089,1090],{},"因为很多人宁愿费力地编出许多理由，也没有勇气承认是忘了","。我觉得这样做人会很轻松。我曾经为",[867,1093,212],{"href":1077},"付出了1800多万元的代价。所以我说，做人不能轻诺，沉默可以，一旦许诺，就要负责到底。当初我离开",[825,1096,858],{},"时，重起炉灶，好多人入股就是看重我的",[867,1099,212],{"href":1077},"，我一句话，他们就把全部家当都投了进来。",[849,1102,1104],{"id":1103},"想要改变自己勇气很重要","\"想要改变自己，勇气很重要\"",[822,1106,1107],{},"记：你从当初一文不名的穷学生到今日的商界精英，你所走过的路是很多年轻人特别是那些不甘平庸的知识青年所羡慕和关注的。能否说说你的学生时代？",[822,1109,1110],{},"段：这就要说杭州了。我是1961年出生的，1977年中学毕业。我常说我们是那个时代最不幸也是最幸运的一代。最不幸指的是文革我们赶上了，幸运的是，我还赶上了上大学。像你这个年纪可能还体会不到我小时候在混合班里上课的滋味。我17岁从江西农村考入浙江大学无线电系，1983年毕业后分到了北京电子管厂。那是个人才成堆的地方，工资是每月46元。大家都觉得自己很能干，都觉得自己待遇低，可大家什么都不干。",[822,1112,1113],{},"记：那时候你是不是觉得特空虚，特无聊？",[822,1115,1116],{},"段：是的，特别没意思。人就是这样，觉得没劲了，就会想办法改变自己。惟一的区别是，有的人有这个勇气，有的人则没有。1986年，我考上了中国人民大学经济系读研究生。那时候校园内经商热盛行，我也试着做过小生意，比如搞腾章光101。从那时候起，我发现了商业中的无穷乐趣。我不喜欢做贸易，这种两边空空的生意没意思。我当时就想，要是自己有个企业，该有多好！",[822,1118,1119],{},"记：后来怎么想到去了广东？",[822,1121,1122,1123,1125,1126,1129,1130,1133],{},"段：1988年研究生毕业后，我不想呆在北京，觉得北京对我这种人成功的概率不会大，因为这里不太适合我。当时就想到思想开放、急需人才的南方去。我当时就有这种心得，一个人一定要找到一个你成功概率最大的环境。海南去看过，后来放弃了，我们算是第一批敏锐地意识到海南\"泡沫经济\"的人。恰好有同学给我带来了他们生产的游戏机，我觉得这个玩意儿有戏，就来到了中山市，在我同学的引荐下，我进入了当时只有十几号人的日华电子电器设备厂，这也是\"",[825,1124,858],{},"\"的前身。1989年3月1日，我当上了这家小厂的厂长。说实在，这一变化，我的履历表起了很大的作用，他们一看我本科学的是无线电；又在电子厂工作过，研究生又学是经济，立马就要我了（笑）。所以有时候人的履历表也很重要，人家一开始并不了解你，最初的印象他只有通过一些纸上的东西来获得。",[825,1127,1128],{},"对于那些想在商界发展的年轻人","，",[825,1131,1132],{},"我的忠告还是那句老话：99%的汗水加上1%的灵感才有可能成功","。",[822,1135,1136],{},"记：听说你明年准备念在职的MBA？",[822,1138,1139],{},"段：对，这世界变化太快了，如果不充电，就很容易跟不上。",[849,1141,1143],{"id":1142},"比尔盖茨和我都是普通人","\"比尔·盖茨和我都是普通人”",[822,1145,1146,1147,1149,1150,1152],{},"记：有媒体报道您和杨元庆时，用\"两书生闯商界十年苦磨剑，",[825,1148,827],{},"杨元庆成千禧英雄\"来形容你们被评为亚洲商界领袖精英20强。我觉得这个标题很棒，那种时代的感觉非常到位。在新世纪即将到来之际，你和\"",[825,1151,834],{},"\"有何具体打算？",[822,1154,1155,1156,1158],{},"段：很难说。太具体了，会透露商业秘密，我们的对手也是一刻不闲着。说远了吧，万一实现不了，那不是穿帮？我不好\"雄才大略\"地说到2005达到什么目标，乱说可以，只要2005年不会到来就好。但这不可能。再过三年，我敢说，我们\"",[825,1157,834],{},"\"的技术水平可以达到台湾的一流企业，那时算是与国际接轨了。做企业就像下围棋，每一步都要考虑得远一些。下围棋只要有了两个眼，就活了，但我感觉我们目前还没有\"眼\"呢，危机四伏。我敢说目前还没有哪家企业有了\"两个眼\"，一不留神就会被劫杀。再说，围棋总会有下完的时候，做企业永远可以做下去。",[822,1160,1161],{},"记：这几天关于中国今年能否加入WTO的消息很多。对你来说，是否利好？",[822,1163,1164],{},"段：我当然希望中国能早日加入，这对我们做企业的来说，有个好处是国家的有关政策会更加国际化和规范化，但竞争也会更激烈。",[822,1166,1167],{},"记：本月底在上海将举行全球\"财富\"论坛，你会去吗？",[822,1169,1170,1171,1174],{},"段：我不会去。因为届时我在香港开会。其实财富论坛我也可以参加，只是要交3万美金的会费，我就不乐意。说句玩笑，有钱人我见多了，连",[825,1172,1173],{},"比尔·盖茨","也早见了。（笑）",[822,1176,1177,1178,1180],{},"记：前段时间你与",[825,1179,1173],{},"握手言欢，参加了\"维纳斯计划\"发布会时，有媒体报道说你始终保持沉默？",[822,1182,1183,1184,1186],{},"段：其实",[825,1185,1173],{},"也面临着其他电脑企业的竞争，我们同样还是有空间可以争取。",[822,1188,1189,1190,1192],{},"记：说个轻松的话题吧。说说你的家庭和爱好，还有，有朝一日，你有没有可能成为中国的",[825,1191,1173],{},"？钱对你来说意味着什么？",[822,1194,1195,1196,1198],{},"段：我的小孩再过几天就8个月了，当爸爸的感觉不一样。我的太太原先在《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